Calibrated My Monitor Now Colors Showing Funny in Photoshop
sRGB colors oversaturated on sRGB display after editing in AdobeRGB
Hi!
The post is a bit lengthy, but it covers all the things that I have tried for convenience.
I guess similar questions have been asked many times before, but so far, no answer that I have seen has solved the issue that I have.
1) I work with an AdobeRGB display (Eizo CS2420), calibrated with Spyder calibrator and I use that profile all the time on this screen (it's quite close to standard factory AdobeRGB profile when I switch between them, so calibration should not be an issue).
2) I edited my photo in AdobeRGB space in photoshop and saved it as a .jpg in AdobeRGB space.
3) Then, saved it as a .jpg in sRGB space. Just to be sure, I tried all the following ways of saving it:
a) for web (legacy)
b) in a standard way but converting to sRGB (embedding the sRGB profile)
c) made a copy of .psd file, converted the image profile to sRGB and then saved it again, both, for web and in a standard way.
Then I open all these files (be it AdobeRGB or the ones saved using different ways as sRGB) in Faststone with color management CMS turned on they all look fine and are very hard to distinguish in any way, including colors. And they look exactly like I see the edited photograph in photoshop, which is exactly what I want.
When I open these pictures in Firefox simply as pictures, or first uploading them to Flickr and then viewing them there using Firefox, the sRGB one looks exactly like the one in the photoshop, whereas the AdobeRGB looks oversaturated. Not sure if it is supposed to be like this, but I don't really care here - I will only be using AdobeRGB photos for printing and will share sRGB online, so, since sRGB shows in Firefox just like I edited it in photoshop, I have no problems with that at all.
The story is different with Chrome, though - I enabled force sRGB in flags, but still, both AdobeRGB and sRGB pictures look way oversaturated.
This leads us to my main issue - whenever I take the sRGB photos and view them on a standard sRGB screen, the colors become way too oversaturated. I'm using Microsoft Surface Book as my sRGB screen and it's definitely not the screen's fault. I also use FastStone there, so it doesn't seem to be the fault of non-color managed software either.
As it was was suggested in another thread by D_Fosse (apparently a cool guy in this area):
1)On my wide gamut screen set to properly calibrated profile, I opened the .psd file, where I had converted the working color space to sRGB
2) Switched on the color proofing node with "Monitor profile" as a proofing profile.
This should, apparently, switch all the color management off. Indeed, I get the same oversaturation that I see on standard sRGB screens.
All in all, something weird is going on with the color management and I have no idea how to solve it. I did everything that I could find on forums, but so far, no luck at all and whatever I do, the images on my sRGB screens are shown way oversaturated.
Any help appreciated!
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Boomanbb • Veteran Member • Posts: 3,139
Re: sRGB colors oversaturated on sRGB display after editing in AdobeRGB
2
Set it the way you want it to look in the browser you want to use. Remember, you have NO CONTROL over how it will look on someone else's device, only your own.
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JohnWheeler • Contributing Member • Posts: 660
Re: sRGB colors oversaturated on sRGB display after editing in AdobeRGB
Sbarnaveli wrote:
Hi!
The post is a bit lengthy, but it covers all the things that I have tried for convenience.
I guess similar questions have been asked many times before, but so far, no answer that I have seen has solved the issue that I have.
1) I work with an AdobeRGB display (Eizo CS2420), calibrated with Spyder calibrator and I use that profile all the time on this screen (it's quite close to standard factory AdobeRGB profile when I switch between them, so calibration should not be an issue).
2) I edited my photo in AdobeRGB space in photoshop and saved it as a .jpg in AdobeRGB space.
3) Then, saved it as a .jpg in sRGB space. Just to be sure, I tried all the following ways of saving it:
a) for web (legacy)
b) in a standard way but converting to sRGB (embedding the sRGB profile)
c) made a copy of .psd file, converted the image profile to sRGB and then saved it again, both, for web and in a standard way.
Then I open all these files (be it AdobeRGB or the ones saved using different ways as sRGB) in Faststone with color management CMS turned on they all look fine and are very hard to distinguish in any way, including colors. And they look exactly like I see the edited photograph in photoshop, which is exactly what I want.
When I open these pictures in Firefox simply as pictures, or first uploading them to Flickr and then viewing them there using Firefox, the sRGB one looks exactly like the one in the photoshop, whereas the AdobeRGB looks oversaturated. Not sure if it is supposed to be like this, but I don't really care here - I will only be using AdobeRGB photos for printing and will share sRGB online, so, since sRGB shows in Firefox just like I edited it in photoshop, I have no problems with that at all.
The story is different with Chrome, though - I enabled force sRGB in flags, but still, both AdobeRGB and sRGB pictures look way oversaturated.
This leads us to my main issue - whenever I take the sRGB photos and view them on a standard sRGB screen, the colors become way too oversaturated. I'm using Microsoft Surface Book as my sRGB screen and it's definitely not the screen's fault. I also use FastStone there, so it doesn't seem to be the fault of non-color managed software either.
As it was was suggested in another thread by D_Fosse (apparently a cool guy in this area):
1) On my wide gamut screen set to properly calibrated profile, I opened the .psd file, where I had converted the working color space to sRGB
2) Switched on the color proofing node with "Monitor profile" as a proofing profile.
This should, apparently, switch all the color management off. Indeed, I get the same oversaturation that I see on standard sRGB screens.
All in all, something weird is going on with the color management and I have no idea how to solve it. I did everything that I could find on forums, but so far, no luck at all and whatever I do, the images on my sRGB screens are shown way oversaturated.
Any help appreciated!
Hi Sbarnaveli
Here is a link on how to set Color Management on Firefox. You want to make sure it is turned on and with ICC Version 4 support. Firefox Color Management Settings
I am assuming that you are making sure the color profile is embedded with the image when saved or that will cause problems as well (I suspect you are)
Also, with Faststone working for you this is likely also not an issue yet double checking You need the most recent version that has a checkbox for using Monitor Profile per this link: Faststone Full CMS setting panel
See if the above mentioned steps fixes or partially fixes you issues.
John Wheeler
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John Wheeler
Never give up. Never surrender. Galaxy Quest
Re: sRGB colors oversaturated on sRGB display after editing in AdobeRGB
Boomanbb wrote:
Set it the way you want it to look in the browser you want to use. Remember, you have NO CONTROL over how it will look on someone else's device, only your own.
Thanks for the reply.
Yes, I am aware, that I can not control what others see on their devices, but when I edited my pictures on an sRGB display (that I use to proof images intended for web now), the difference between how it looked on that sRGB display, my wide gamut display and general phone displays were minimal - one could still say that it is the same photo.
However, this picture simply becomes horrible on any other non-wide gamut displays that I have tried. There seems to be something technically going wrong with the color profiles - it's definitely not just a display variation.
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Re: sRGB colors oversaturated on sRGB display after editing in AdobeRGB
Thank you for a reply.
Yes, I did both of these things before. CMS is also enabled on both - wide gamut and sRGB monitors.
None of this solves my issues, unfortunately...
Edit: sRGB was embedded, adobeRGB not, so at least in Firefox Flickr they now look the same. In Chrome both are still oversaturated. And the main issue with sRGB displays is still there, of course, as sRGB was embedded in sRGB photos.
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ADDED IMAGES WITH EXIF FOR DEMONSTRATION
Here I am adding both pictures, so that anyone can see the exif and see, whether it is done properly.
1) This one is Adobe RGB
2) and this one, below, is sRGB:
sRGB version of the image
Interesting to note: when I look at both of them in this thread now, on my wide gamut monitor in google chrome, they both look oversaturated. In Firefox, they are both fine and look the same and like it was intended in Photoshop.
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Joachim B • Contributing Member • Posts: 992
Re: ADDED IMAGES WITH EXIF FOR DEMONSTRATION
2
There is a difference between ASSIGNING a colorspace, and CONVERTING to one. I have the feeling your process assigns the sRGB space without converting to it.
After you are done editing in AdobeRGB, use the 'convert to colorspace' option in the image menu. Convert to sRGB with relative colorimetric rendering intent and blackpoint compensation turned on.
After that, save/export your image, and see if the result differs.
PS: I've downloaded your image, and it does not have a specific RGB profile attached to it.
Re: ADDED IMAGES WITH EXIF FOR DEMONSTRATION
Joachim B wrote:
There is a difference between ASSIGNING a colorspace, and CONVERTING to one. I have the feeling your process assigns the sRGB space without converting to it.
After you are done editing in AdobeRGB, use the 'convert to colorspace' option in the image menu. Convert to sRGB with relative colorimetric rendering intent and blackpoint compensation turned on.
After that, save/export your image, and see if the result differs.
PS: I've downloaded your image, and it does not have a specific RGB profile attached to it.
Thank you for the advise.
I did that previously, but I re-did it again just to be sure with the following procedure:
1) Converting from Adobe RGB to sRGB
2) then exporting it (first with "Convert to sRGB" unchecked):
the result is here:
and then with that option checked:
And here is the result:
As I expected, both exports are the same.
But, unfortunately, they still look oversaturated. I guess, if you are using chrome, you will also be able to see, that the export screen screenshots look less saturated than the resulting images. At least, on my wide-gamut screen (with chrome color managing forced sRGB switched on), they have different saturations.
I really don't understand what's going on here.
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jonby • Regular Member • Posts: 332
Re: sRGB colors oversaturated on sRGB display after editing in AdobeRGB
1
Sbarnaveli wrote:
... whenever I take the sRGB photos and view them on a standard sRGB screen, the colors become way too oversaturated. I'm using Microsoft Surface Book as my sRGB screen and it's definitely not the screen's fault.
When you say, 'standard sRGB screen', what do you mean exactly? Do you mean a screen with its monitor profile set to sRGB? If so, then this may result in an increase in colour saturation. A monitor should normally be set to its default profile or to one which has been produced via a calibration process. On my computer at least, if I set the monitor profile to sRGB, then everything becomes more saturated.
My understanding is that for best consistency across a wide range of viewing situations, browsers etc, you should:
Calibrate your monitor and set the monitor to use the calibrated profile, or if not possible set the monitor to its default profile.
Edit in your preferred editing colour space - usually Adobe RGB.
Before export, convert to sRGB (not assign)
Save as jpeg.
The colour profile conversion step should not cause a significant visual change in colour, unlike assigning a profile, which would.
If you're already doing this and are getting big colour changes on your test monitors, then it's likely to be that those monitors are not set up in a way which is 'representative' of 'most' monitors (if that's even possible).
Joachim B • Contributing Member • Posts: 992
Re: ADDED IMAGES WITH EXIF FOR DEMONSTRATION
What happens if you uncheck 'embed color profile'? Then the viewers should default back to sRGB.
On my screen, the images look identical. I can't tell if they are overstaturated, because I don't know what your original looks like on your monitors.
Could it be that your viewers can't handle the color profile of the calibrated monitor?
Re: ADDED IMAGES WITH EXIF FOR DEMONSTRATION
Joachim B wrote:
What happens if you uncheck 'embed color profile'? Then the viewers should default back to sRGB.
On my screen, the images look identical. I can't tell if they are overstaturated, because I don't know what your original looks like on your monitors.
Could it be that your viewers can't handle the color profile of the calibrated monitor?
Nothing changes even if I only convert it to sRGB without checking the "embed color profile" box during the export - still as oversaturated in google chrome, as before...
I am not sure about your suggestion about my viewers. I am no expert in these profiles and not sure how the viewers interact with my monitors profile.
To demonstrate the difference I include another picture below. It does not matter, what absolute saturation each of the images has for the demonstration purposes - all I am trying to show with this particular screenshot, that there is a difference in saturations when the same sRGB image is open in google chrome (left) vs firefox (right). Again, firefox shows the same colors as I edit in photoshop, whereas chrome is way oversaturated:
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Re: sRGB colors oversaturated on sRGB display after editing in AdobeRGB
jonby wrote:
Sbarnaveli wrote:
... whenever I take the sRGB photos and view them on a standard sRGB screen, the colors become way too oversaturated. I'm using Microsoft Surface Book as my sRGB screen and it's definitely not the screen's fault.
When you say, 'standard sRGB screen', what do you mean exactly? Do you mean a screen with its monitor profile set to sRGB? If so, then this may result in an increase in colour saturation. A monitor should normally be set to its default profile or to one which has been produced via a calibration process. On my computer at least, if I set the monitor profile to sRGB, then everything becomes more saturated.
My understanding is that for best consistency across a wide range of viewing situations, browsers etc, you should:
Calibrate your monitor and set the monitor to use the calibrated profile, or if not possible set the monitor to its default profile.
Edit in your preferred editing colour space - usually Adobe RGB.
Before export, convert to sRGB (not assign)
Save as jpeg.The colour profile conversion step should not cause a significant visual change in colour, unlike assigning a profile, which would.
If you're already doing this and are getting big colour changes on your test monitors, then it's likely to be that those monitors are not set up in a way which is 'representative' of 'most' monitors (if that's even possible).
Thanks for the reply. With 'standard sRGB screen' I meant the screen of my Surface Book, which has a standard gamut sRGB screen (I believe 60-70% of adobe RGB coverage and around 100% sRGB). So it is set to its native color space, so to say.
The same goes for my wide gamut monitor - I use it in AdobeRGB mode (calibrated and it coincides with the factory AdobeRGB profile quite well), so its native profile as well.
Indeed, you are right about conversion to sRGB - the image basically stays the same when I convert the .psd document profile to sRGB. And when I export it with sRGB profile, it shows correct colors in FastStone image viewer, when color management is switched on.
Interesting thing is, that when I transfer these sRGB images over to my laptop with sRGB screen that I mentioned above and view them in the same FastStone viewer with color management turned on, I am getting a strong oversaturation.
Similarly, I uploaded both - Adobe RGB and sRGB images to flickr and on my wide gamut monitor+Firefox browser, the colors look correct, but whenever I switch to my laptop and use Firefox to view the same Flickr page, then the colors are way oversaturated again.
I don't think it's monitors fault. I think there's something with software.
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ccarrier • Senior Member • Posts: 1,194
Typical of wide gamut monitor
1
Hi,
I have an hypothesis for the explanation, but I'm not sure (I just created a punchy title so people would react to it
But to confirm my hypothesis, could you do the following test :
Create 2 pictures like below :
first one :
- New document with SRGB profile. fill the red with 255 red, 0 green, 0 blue. Same principle for the 2 other colors
- save the picture with the sRGB profile embedded
second one :
- New document with Adobe RGB profile.
- fill the red with 255 red, 0 green, 0 blue. Same principle for the 2 other colors
- save the picture with the sRGB profile embedded
Then open both images on both your monitors.
On the "standard srgb" monitor, open both images in a color managed software. To my opinion they sould look almost the same. (on my "standard srgb" monitor, the adobe rgb one look just a tiny bit more saturated).
It is normal, because on this monitor, the most saturated red it can display is "srgb red 255" So anything above it (like adobe rgb red 255 will display de same).
But on the "adobe rgb monitor", the srgb red 255 should look less saturated than the adobe rgb red 255, because the monitor is capable of displaying a wider gamut of colors (otherwise what would be the point of such a monitor)
Remember that color perception is relative (the 2 small grey squares insides the big squares below are the same color but one look darker than the other)
So the "adobe rgb monitor" has to keep room to display the adobe rgb red 255, so it will display the srgb red 255 less saturated.
I don't know if this makes sense, but maybe maybe this will open some avenues for reflection so that we can find an explanation.
keep me inform of your tests
Have a good day!
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jonby • Regular Member • Posts: 332
Re: sRGB colors oversaturated on sRGB display after editing in AdobeRGB
1
Sbarnaveli wrote:
Similarly, I uploaded both - Adobe RGB and sRGB images to flickr and on my wide gamut monitor+Firefox browser, the colors look correct, but whenever I switch to my laptop and use Firefox to view the same Flickr page, then the colors are way oversaturated again.
Is this only happening with your images - I mean, if you look at other online images do they look the same on both machines, or do you have a similar over-saturation when viewed on the laptop? (I presume they look similar, but just checking)
Have you ever edited images on your wide gamut screen and not had this problem? I mean, when did you first notice the problem - was it when you replaced your screen?
JohnWheeler • Contributing Member • Posts: 660
Re: sRGB colors oversaturated on sRGB display after editing in AdobeRGB
4
Alexander_AB wrote:
Thank you for a reply.
Yes, I did both of these things before. CMS is also enabled on both - wide gamut and sRGB monitors.
None of this solves my issues, unfortunately...
Edit: sRGB was embedded, adobeRGB not, so at least in Firefox Flickr they now look the same. In Chrome both are still oversaturated. And the main issue with sRGB displays is still there, of course, as sRGB was embedded in sRGB photos.
Hi Alexander
Glad that some issues were resolved when you made sure the profile was embedded.
Let me point out a few more gotchas to consider and a couple links that give you tools to test your system.
Note that I think we are trying to solve a multitude conditions at once which will complicate matters yet the basics of color management are a bit more straightforward. Note that you are comparing photoshop viewing to various browser viewing to other program viewing (e.g. Faststone) and also some with and some without embedded profiles and as you move your images around (e.g. to flickr) some settings will strip the information out of the iamge so when you thought it had a profile attached it could be stripped out and therefore no longer embedded.
I don't think this is your issue yet if a color profile is a Version 4 ICC profile some systems don't work well (they work well with Version 2 profiles.
Also, the behavior of what happens with profiles not embedded depends on the browser/viewer and their settings. With some viewers and no embedded profile some will assume it is in sRGB and convert to the monitor profile. Others will just send the image data directly to the monitor with no adjustmenst for wide gamut. An example is that even with Faststone CMS totally turned on, an image with no profile will be sent directly to the monitor. If an sRGB image did not have the profile embedded, Faststone would send sRGB directly to you wide gamut montitor and it would look oversaturated. Firefox broswer would assume its sRGB and do the conversion and it would look correct.
I strongly suggest that you have a way to absolutely verify that the profile is properly embedded and not stripped out (or never embedded) as that could be part of your problem and adding to the confusion. If you don't know how to verify if it is embedded, just ask for details
Now here are a couple links that could
The following link will verify if you system is ICC Version 4 ready and working. The page is self explanatory and I would use their HTML link as well as the PDF link to see the resulrt you get: Test to verfiy systme can handle ICC Version 4 Profiles
This next link will verify if your browser properly color manages or not. Firefox (all recent versions) when the settings are properly set works great. As I understand, most recent version of Chrome should have settings to allow to work as well yet working through the info on the linked page will clue you in: Testing Browsers Color Management
The only other recommendation is to solve one problem at a time. e.g. using images with verified embedded profiles, test on a specific system and one specific viewer and if there are issues, then solve that first before exponentially increasing the possible problems by adding in many variable simultaneously. This is the divide and conquer approach and it works quite well.
Hope this helps
John Wheeler
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John Wheeler
Never give up. Never surrender. Galaxy Quest
Re: Typical of wide gamut monitor
I think this is a very good idea!
This way we can remove anything connected to the actual photograph and only look at pure color management stuff.
I did the tests and indeed, on my Adobe RGB screen, sRGB image exported from Adobe RGB document looks more saturated, than the sRGB image exported from sRGB document.
The interesting thing is, that on my sRGB screen, the images indeed look almost indistinguishable (if I had not specifically looked for the color differences, they would seem indistinguishable), but, again, compared to the Adobe RGB screen, sRGB screen shows these images way oversaturated...
Is this how it all should be?
Or is something indeed wrong with software side?
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Re: sRGB colors oversaturated on sRGB display after editing in AdobeRGB
jonby wrote:
Sbarnaveli wrote:
Similarly, I uploaded both - Adobe RGB and sRGB images to flickr and on my wide gamut monitor+Firefox browser, the colors look correct, but whenever I switch to my laptop and use Firefox to view the same Flickr page, then the colors are way oversaturated again.
Is this only happening with your images - I mean, if you look at other online images do they look the same on both machines, or do you have a similar over-saturation when viewed on the laptop? (I presume they look similar, but just checking)
Have you ever edited images on your wide gamut screen and not had this problem? I mean, when did you first notice the problem - was it when you replaced your screen?
You are right - I compared random pictures on Flickr with Firefox and also some downloaded pictures from the web in FastStone on both machines and I was very surprised, that I did pay much attention before to the fact, that the saturation was quite different in every case! sRGB monitor was always more saturated...
At first, I thought this was an explanation to my problem. I even wrote a possible explanation of why this happened and why I only noticed it now:
Part of the reason might be the fact, that my Adobe RGB display is more matte than my sRGB screen, therefore, showing less contrast and saturation. But, I think the main reason why I was not noticing this before is, that the majority of my pictures were edited on my sRGB screen and they appeared less saturated on my Adobe RGB screen, which is much less noticeable than when a normally saturated image on my Adobe RGB screen suddenly becomes oversaturated on my sRGB screen.
And you were also correct to make me think about when I noticed this oversaturation behavior. Doing the RGB test, suggested by the previous reply to this thread, I realized, that the most affected color during oversaturation is RED. Besides, the darker the picture, the more noticeable becomes the contrast increase in darker areas - they just become crushed.
I have already edited several pictures on my AdobeRGB monitor before this one, but, what I now realized was, that all those pictures were mainly bluish, cold and not as dark as this picture that I have been editing now, therefore, when I checked them on my sRGB screen later, it did not jump out, that it was crazy oversaturated - whatever differences I noticed, I just assumed, that it is just a slight variation in displays and that's it.
But now I added a lot more purple/reddish colors to this picture and made it very dark as well, therefore everything jumped out on me...
But I still thought this oversaturation might be too extreme and indeed - I noticed, that if I convert the .psd file from Adobe RGB to sRGB, the picture still looks the same in photoshop, however, if now I check "proof colors" (ctrl+Y), with "Monitor Profile" selected, I am replicating the sRGB screen behavior on my Adobe RGB screen (just like Chrome was showing oversaturated colors on my Adobe RGB screen)! the picture gets increased contrast and oversaturated and if I now compare this picture to the one I see on my sRGB, the sRGB is still more saturated, but this time the difference is not that dramatic and more in line with what I see on other pictures online.
I read somewhere, that Proofing colors with Monitor Profile selected switches off any color management and shows wrong and oversaturated colors. If this is the case, then I think, the issue is still there and it has to do something with stretching the sRGB color values to Adobe RGB space or something like this.
So, I still don't understand what's going on...
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Re: sRGB colors oversaturated on sRGB display after editing in AdobeRGB
Dear John,
Thank you for the links! I'm checking them and they work fine when I open them as webpages and they become ugly when I open them as PDF-s in each of the two browsers, albeit in different ways. But I think, the main point is that both browsers display the webpage correctly, which is good.
But I will indeed start doing the divide and conquer approach, as you suggested and I think one of the previous replies about r g b color document comparison between systems is an ideal place to start, as there are already some differences there.
Will try to narrow down the issue even more, if possible.
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KLO82 • Senior Member • Posts: 1,471
Re: ADDED IMAGES WITH EXIF FOR DEMONSTRATION
1
Alexander_AB wrote:
Joachim B wrote:
What happens if you uncheck 'embed color profile'? Then the viewers should default back to sRGB.
On my screen, the images look identical. I can't tell if they are overstaturated, because I don't know what your original looks like on your monitors.
Could it be that your viewers can't handle the color profile of the calibrated monitor?
Nothing changes even if I only convert it to sRGB without checking the "embed color profile" box during the export - still as oversaturated in google chrome, as before...
I am not sure about your suggestion about my viewers. I am no expert in these profiles and not sure how the viewers interact with my monitors profile.
To demonstrate the difference I include another picture below. It does not matter, what absolute saturation each of the images has for the demonstration purposes - all I am trying to show with this particular screenshot, that there is a difference in saturations when the same sRGB image is open in google chrome (left) vs firefox (right). Again, firefox shows the same colors as I edit in photoshop, whereas chrome is way oversaturated:
I see the more saturated version on my Chrome browser (which has forced sRGB enabled in flag) using my non wide gamut display. Both the sRGB version and Adobe RGB version appear exactly same, with high saturation.
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Re: ADDED IMAGES WITH EXIF FOR DEMONSTRATION
Great! That's exactly the issue. Thanks for commenting!
And when I use force sRGB in Firefox, they both start to look oversaturated for me on the Adobe RGB screen as well. When I don't use force sRGB, but still keep the color management on, both of them look just fine and not oversaturated.
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How do you make weird lens even weirder? Put a periscope on it! We check out the new Laowa Periprobe 24mm F14 2X and explore some of the creative things you can do with such a bizarre lens.
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If you're looking for the perfect drone for yourself, or to gift someone special, we've gone through all of the options and selected our favorites.
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Although a lot of people only upload images to Instagram from their smartphones, the app is much more than just a mobile photography platform. In this guide we've chosen a selection of cameras that make it easy to shoot compelling lifestyle images, ideal for sharing on social media.
Source: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4596032
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